Mounts, what make Heralds the mini-MC they are.
Juggernaut of Khorne: Not bad, but you really want to give these guys Chariots. This is for people with say the Skulltaker on a Juggernaut model from the original Daemon boxed release, but for everyone else--skip this and bring a chariot model you converted up.
Disc of Tzeentch: Makes you Jump Infantry. It's not bad when jumping from a Tzeentch unit and flaming someone, but if they don't die...you know you're totally dead. I'd skip and go with a herald on a chariot.
Mount of Slaanesh: Makes you Cavalry, but since the Chariot does too...skip this and go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect 200$.
Palanquin of Nurgle: Nurgle doesn't get a Chariot because Nurgle gets Epidemius, and the Tallyman is really good at hiding. Don't bring a Palanquin of Nurgle, bring another Plaguebearer.
Chariot of Khorne: Only gives you 1 extra wound over a Jugg, but it costs 15 points versus 35 points. Curses, GW strikes again. Makes this herald a mini-MC, and that's a good thing for you.
Chariot of Tzeentch: Gives you a 5 wound shooting machine on a Jetbike with T4. Bring several!
Chariot of Slaanesh: Gives you a 5 wound Hit & Run beast unit. With T4 and a 4+ save, much better than what Slaanesh usually gets. Again, bring several to really make them felt.
In short, the only model who can use a non-chariot is Epidemius (so he stays alive forever against shooting). Everyone else should forgo the non-chariot mounts and get a Chariot. They make your heralds very powerful indeed.
Summary: So, the reason you don't usually (ever?) take the non-chariots is because they are such good deals. Making every Herald a mini-Monstrous Creature is what it's all about. You are more vulnerable, since you lose IC status, but you generally double (or better) your wounds, improve your toughness and armor saves...your S and A values...there's just no real comparison between being mounted on a steed and being mounted on a chariot. The most dangerous Daemon armies have 4 heralds on Chariots. Khorne is very killy, Slaanesh is killy and annoying, and Tzeentch gives you the mobile anti-vehicle capability Daemons lack.
Daemonic Steeds
Labels: Daemonic Gifts
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6 comments:
You seem a like fanboy of chariots.
Have you ever used them?
They get shot down before you know it.
I prefer juggernauts because you can hide in the (relative) safety of a unit of bloodcrushers.
The only Chariot I see worth being independant is the Tzeentch one for a mobile shooting platform.
Maybe the Slaanesh one, but as I said, gonna get shot to pieces.
Hmmm. You seem like you are being rude for some reason, but I'll gladly answer your question.
First off, I've made everything up, never played a daemon army either for or against. Can't you tell?
Second, they get shot down before you know it? In which gaming universe do you play? 2 heralds, 2 units of crushers, 2 max units of plaguebearers, and 2 grinders? Gee, I can't imagine why they get shot down right away. Back to reality, note the large number of targets in the good army lists (not shit lists) posted near the bottom. The Tzeentch and Slaanesh Chariots are T4, so that means you need to inflict 10 wounds on T4 to kill them. On the Khorne Chariot, he's T5 with a 3+ save, but "only" 4 wounds . Both are difficult for a tactical squad to kill, because they don't have enough shots. Just barely but that's the reality.
Three, hiding a Juggernaut in a unit of bloodcrushers (or frankly, almost any herald hiding in a marked unit) just means the other guy can concentrate his fire and his anti-assault efforts at one unit. Not exactly bright gameplay.
Four, both the Slaanesh and the Tzeentch Chariot have the same rough survivability. 5 wounds, T4, 4+ save. Think an invulnerable save means a thing when Slaanesh has a 4+/5+ and can get cover saves for the same kind of protection against shooting? If you get hammered when you have 4 heralds on the table and 4 other threat units down (grinders, your choice of elites) you can sucker the other guy into killing the 'easy' heralds and just go to ground with them, making them even harder to kill. The Khorne Chariot generally doesn't get much benefit from a 3+ cover save but if you are being zapped by Lascannons and Missile Launchers, he'll want to use the same tactic. Of course, if he doesn't hit you with many wounds you can just shrug them off. After that, all of a sudden your other threat units are unhurt and coming into his army. Those other units getting to assault without being shot at because his 4 tactical squads shot up your heralds means he's going to lose 4 tactical squads, and your next turn...those Heralds will be moving again.
Maybe it's the way you run your army, the models you have, the money you are willing to spend, I mean...you don't sound like you understand how powerful the mini-MC heralds actually are.
Add it all up:
4xSlaanesh Heralds, 3x6 Fiends:
56 T4 cavalry wounds? So you need to rapid fire me 112 times with bolters to drop me when I'm in cover? Really??
4 Khorne Heralds, 24 Bloodcrushers.
64 T5 wounds with a 3+ save? lol.
Come on. Get real. Heralds are awesome.
Sorry if I sounded rude, I wasn't meaning to be.
I agree heralds are awesome, I've just never liked them on chariots, just my opinion.
You are right with some things, though - it is how I run my army, as I've only used one chariot, so of course it's gonna get shot up.
You should try daemons one day, even if it's just using a display army in a GW or something.
I've been playtesting all of these daemon armies solid for the last month. lol
Use 4 chariots, you'll see how good they can be. Personally, I think if you mix & match fast with slow in heralds/GD and elites, you'll get the most bang for your buck out of the Daemon army.
Owning a Daemon army isn't a matter of money, it's a matter of...too many armies sitting unpainted. lol
Agree on the Chariots. I've done testing with them, and while the T4 and 4+ save often says 'Shoot Meeeee!' to those with lots of small arms...swarming the enemy with Chariots and other fast troops does saturate the area with targets.
The biggest standout here is the Tzeentch chariot, as far as I'm concerned. A fast stabby unit isn't limited to the HQ, but a unit that can position itself and fire decent anti-tank shots IS.
The Slaanesh Chariot counts as Cavalry, not beast (to clear up any confusion someone may have run gotten.)
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